Giants: Citizen Kabuto 1.5 (no, really)

Posts relating to the currently in development and sure to be released 1.5 patch.

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Giants: Citizen Kabuto 1.5 (no, really)

Post by Zopharks » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:22 am

Sit down and fasten your metaphorical seatbelts, this is not a drill.

Giants: Citizen Kabuto 1.5 is in active development.

There is no smoke and not a single mirror. Progress has already began and is continuing on with a great deal of speed and momentum. Nearly every major bug that has plagued 1.4 has been fixed, and now further direction is needed.

What needs to be fixed?

What requires balancing?

Which random features or enhancements would you like included into the game?

Every suggestion will be given consideration, but know that only reasonable ideas are likely to make it in. The goal is to revitalize the community, and inject life back into the game's multiplayer population - so don't hold back... this is a real, honest to God patch -

Current change list:

(edit) The final list of changes is now available here.
Last edited by Zopharks on Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by Zopharks » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:22 am

One of the major points of this patch is the balancing out of Giants' multiplayer - but what do we mean by this, exactly?

To paint a picture as to the direction we'd like to take, here is a list of some of the current ideas that have floated around:

• (Mecc) Adjust jetpack upgrade capabilities (suggestions wanted!)
• (Mecc) Significant buffs to repair pack.
• (Mecc) Increase bushpack movement speed.
• (Mecc) Prevent homing missiles from locking on to cloaked players.
• (Reaper) Increase Reaper movement speed.
• (Reaper) Enhance Reaper turbo capabilities.
• (Reaper) Slightly reduce overall health.
• (Reaper) Enhance RPG bow speed, damage, and splash radius to reduce focus on homing projectiles.
• (Reaper) Do something about the Follow spell.
• (Reaper) Decrease vertical range of certain spells.
• (Reaper) Prevent spell casting while cloaked.
• (Reaper) Prevent one hit kills on Kabuto using cluster spell.
• (Kabuto) Increased defence vs sniper weapons.

With regards to Meccs, we want to buff nearly all of the backpack items (except, obviously, for the shield pack) - as it stands most of them are useless at the current time. When it comes to Reapers, our current idea is to keep them difficult to fight against one vs one - but for different reasons than that which exist currently: our current vision is to see them as being fast and nimble, as opposed to simply being made out of titanium, and to redirect their combat focus from one hit kills via spells (slow, follow, and cluster specifically).

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Post by Puglin. » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:52 am

What the hell? Seriously?

Well... Glad I got that email. Okay, first off, if you bump up the jetpack upgrade for meccs, you're probably gonna have to increase the height you can fall from as a mecc without taking damage. Nerfing reapers is a good idea, as is upgrading Kabuto... No one mecc should be able to kill Kabuto single-handed without an absolute HEAP of skill. Also, I always thought reaper weapons were kinda stupid. Like, the powerup bow. You shoot multiple projectiles which chase down your enemy and deal tremendous damage. Mind you, I also have issues with the targetting system.

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Post by GibLit » Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:03 am

I think the follow spell should be changed into a tool for incapacitating a player for a given amount of time, doing no damage and leaving them invulnerable during the incap. That way it won't be another overpowering spell, but would still have a unique purpose for 2vs2 or higher matches. I haven't played the game in a long time let alone as a reaper, but if how I remember how fast the spell travels is correct, I think maybe it should be lowered so that players have a chance to hide behind terrain in order to evade it, also giving another motive to keep distance from opponents, or getting closer to cast the spell, at the same time risking getting mines to the face.

Speaking of mines, I remember reapers having no delay between shots, this includes spells aswell. I can't remember if this was fixed in ghook or not, but I think some delay should be implemented if not. Doesn't have to be equal to the meccs', as to keep reapers nimble, but there should be something atleast.

I definitely agree with the buffing up the repair pack. Significant buffage to healing players would add motive to having medics on a team. Could be pretty fun. However, in my opinion, I think healing of buildings should be reduced. It would inspire a bit of teamwork, in that a single player will have a hard time fixing up a shop, while if 3 players focus on fixing the shop, it'll obviously go up faster. Hell, why not multiply the healing rate of one player healing a building for every player healing the same building by 1.33. I'm just throwing stuff out there. I have no clue how to tweak the game or if this is even possible to implement, but if so, and you manage to do it, then you have my permission to fu** my sister!

As for the jetpack upgrade, I'm thinking midair nitro abilities. Maybe 2 or 3 without hitting the ground, as opposed to just the one.

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Post by DarkFalcoZ » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:50 am

Obviously the reaper's spells have to be nerfed a bit to so most of them are not one hit kills. The follow spell should be either a bind like Gib said, or make it do non-lethal damage fast, an effect that is similar to a homing bow.

I also think the mines delay is a good idea. The reaper's mine delay while on the ground is slower than meccs, but the delay disappears when you jump and can spam them.

There's another bug on the reaper's mines that gets annoying. I don't know what causes it, but when you try shooting mines, they immediately explode on you and are useless for the remainder of the game session.

The power-up bow needs to be downgraded either in its range or damage, since many like to abuse that weapon. Also, the sniper bow's range should be a little closer to the sniper gun, because the sniper bow shoots much faster than the sniper gun.

The repair pack definitely needs to be buffed, so it can be better matched against the repair spell. The multiplier sounds interesting, it creates more incentive for base teamwork.

You could also try reducing the fuel usage of the repair gun if your not going to increase its healing power.

Another buff you can try out is allowing the repair pack to be used by a player on the wing of a gyro. That will make dog fights a more tactical option in team battles (the healing power can be decreased if it is unbalanced).

Now about the gyro, something has to be done about the bug where a gyro can sit on water infinitely. Either make it get damaged, put a timer on it, or better yet, set up a marker in the map so a team can find it.

I think the gyro machine gun can use a change too. If not the fire rate or range of it, at least increase its accuracy so its not so hard to hit other gyros and players.

One of the bugs I want to see fixed is when you shoot backwards while in the water as a mecc. It makes water battles much less appealing.

Another bug I find in the water as a mecc is the occurrance of being unable to move the mecc or move the cursor. At that point, you're vulnerable and usually die shortly after.

Another oddity I find is while using the reaperski. If your cursor is too low when you try to lock onto something, it resets and you have to lock on again.

It forces me to stay far away from the target and doesn't seem practical for the amount of damage it does to things like kabuto or buildings.

On top of that, the overall manueverability of the reaperski is awkward. The races in singleplayer are boring and using it in multiplayer is unappealing.

A bug I want to see fixed in kabuto is when you sometimes try to throw an object right after you pick it up and it just stops as when you throw it.

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help fix Wine/Linux graphical glitches

Post by plouj » Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:13 am

I realize that this isn't your responsibility and probably not even interesting to most people here, but it would be great if the work on Patch 1.5 somehow provided some help in fixing the graphics glitches (1 and 2) seen in Giants while being played under Wine in GNU/Linux operating systems.

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Post by Heebinator » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:13 am

Wow this is excellent news! Hope this sparks up the community again!
Question though, is this an official PM patch? Or is this a community patch?
I really loved that you guys sent out an email to all members too!

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Post by DarkFalcoZ » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:20 am

Something that can be useful for kabuto is the ability to throw more objects than just smarties, vimps, and volcanoe rocks. It can be extended to trees, buildings, wood stacks, etc...

However, I know that some custom maps have objects scaled to huge sizes, you can offset that problem with an algorithm. It would take the scale or size value of the object your picking up and slow down kabuto's animation depending on how big the object is.

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Post by Rollo » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:54 am

Wow, great news :)

I haven't played Giants for ages it seems, but still is one of the greatest games I ever played. I need to find my CD's and reinstall it when this comes out. Time to play it once again.

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Re: Giants: Citizen Kabuto 1.5 (no, really)

Post by HellSnake » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:55 am

OMFG!!! :D

this is great news!
i hope it will bring the community back to life

as bugs:things that i want fixed:
u can only login once on a server
(so not like:
hackers do it and it really irritates me)
and the bug that when u fly to the end of the map and can walk should be fixed)

p.s. loggin in from french internet cafe over here

great news, makes my vakantion great! :P
c_ya guys in giantswd dedicated over a week

greetings: hellsnake(nl)/(driepondei)

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Post by Malix » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:54 pm

If this brings the game back to life i will like freak out. Sounds great guys thx alot.

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Post by Carlern-tk » Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:54 pm

Thanks for the mail!

Many good ideas rolling here, so I think I'll add some myself:

1). An added option where you can remove the player makers (large/small/no markers) more easily (not everyone knows the command for it; writing "pmarkers" on the command line).

2). More party house items = more action on the whole battlefield. (Doesn't mean new types of items, just a greater number allowed to build.)

3). The tornado spell for the reaper to do less damage (not so overpowered) but being able to drag the opponents around in circles instead of killing them easily (as in 1 player/story mode). Maybe a tad shorter casting time.

4). Bots!! I know the bot function for bot mecchs in story mode only was to either guard a place or to follow a player, but still! Maybe there even could be a match where everyone is fighting against a reaper fortress while building a base (as in story mode)? That'd be cool.

5). (Much) larger/more maps included in the patch. Please?

6). Easier to change map, mode, etc. while already playing. Using commands is not very easy to those who are not familiar with them.

7). More modes: demolition, king of the hill, domination.

8 ). If you feel like it/have time for it; it would be cool to see some totally new items on map/in play (weapons, vehicles, buildings).

I will probably have more ideas later.

Last, a huge support to the suggestion about the better Reaper turbo. It seems that the reaper moves slower the shorter the distance the reaper is moving. If the reaper could have a constant speed (maybe faster than the original), that would be perfect. I hate it when you only follow your opponent in a head on duel, and cannot actually get close in melee with your sword.

EDIT: Maybe Kabuto could have a slightly shorter reach than before? I think he reaches beyond himself sometimes.
And one more thing: when Kabuto throws somebody up in the air, I find it strange that the victim actually dies from that without hitting anything.

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Post by Carlern-tk » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:15 pm

I didn't see it at first, but the integration of GMM into Giants would have been awesome!! That hopefully makes it easier to play many player-made levels (I hope, dunno).

Also, I highly agree on all of those ideas "that have floated around". Wonderful!

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Post by Giants_Gamer32 » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:38 pm

-Some kabuto things: 1-fix the 4 feet footprint to 3 feet. 2- Always start and stay forever in the full size, even if you are killed and respawn (Could be done in SP missions ?). A small kabuto cannot do much agains 2 or 3 or more flying meccs (wich are much faster than him) with rocketlaunchers or with a gyro. Even less if all the smarties of the map are in the Mecc and Reaper full bases than can be defended by turrets to make the things a lot harder for the small kabuto.

-I've noticed that there are "strange giant reapermen" (like you can find them for example at Kabuto story 3,4,5). There are at least twice the size of the normal one's but causes the same damage, so the reaperman is bigger than his rocketlauncher :?. Scale them down at normal size). I would like to have all at the same size.

-Put the birds in all the SP missions, because there are mission wich you hear them in the background but they aren't there. You will feel less alone in the maps.

-Add clouds when it's raining in some maps (SP and MP).

-No sunlight when it's raining (the sun dissapears but the sunlight is still in). Like the terrain is being darker, the objects and models should turn darker too. And when the sun returns, they turn lighter as before.

-Put sea small waves in the coasts or water collisions in the terrain ? it would look a lot more realistic.

-Grass new 3d texture in all the green terrains ?

-Wind storms with sound and with or without rain with a new palmtrees animation moving (on the maps where it rains) ? something close to when you are near to the reaper tornado.

-Mountains have a round form.

-Increase the fire rate of the mecc machinegun like in the previous versions of the game. This could be applyed to the gyro too.

-Scale down Delphi (reaper). In the cutscenes she is a bit taller than the meccs, but in MP she is twice their size.

-Scale down Sappho at Delphi's height, she is huge (nearly three times the size of Delphi when in the cutscenes they are the same).

-Scale down the smarties including the evil ones to the size of Timmy (in MP, Borjoyzee is Bigger than you !).

-Remove the hability that have the offsprings to attack other kabuto's.

-It is possible to fix that when you perform adrenaline attacks as kabuto and walk inmediately over an object that is near you, that object could not stay floating ?

-Remove the ugly tall white water waves that produces kabuto when he is walking or running in the water.

-Improve the SP reapermen aim. They shoot always in the ground instead in your face like the previous version of the game.

-Burned trees can no longer block kabuto's pass.

-Hability for kabuto to attack sonacks ( he would grab and throw them like in the cutscene where the original kabuto grabs and throws your kabuto) without the use of the adrenaline attacks.

-Hability for kabuto to grab all the turrets (like the offsprings) and throw them destroyed.

-Hability for kabuto to grab gyro's (even with mecc's riding it) and throw them (once the gyro hit an object or the ground or a mountain it is destroyed, but doesn't kill the meccs, only causes minor damage like when you do free fall speed at a high place with the gyro).

-The footstomp and a punch of a full sized kabuto should kill the sea reapers with one hit.

-I think that making this could have the game unbalanced (or not): kabuto and his offsprings are only vulnerable to shoots at their weakspots (he would have the resistance of the npc kabuto at the final mission of the game but kabuto's weakspot will be always open).

-Breakable wood bridges by the overweight of kabuto or the weapons of the meccs and reapers.

-Reaper's tornado should send flying objects like trees, wood tables, wood tower's.

-Steel big undestructable towers (like the one's in 3 way 1 map) should be destructable by Kabuto, the mecc super bomb and reaper's fire attack's.

-When kabuto walks or runs, any creature below his foot's should die. Or when landing over a creature after jumping (he weight a lot of tones).

-New creatures ? like fishes, sheeps, other tipes of inoffensive creatures that are not vimps and birds. than can be eated by kabuto, or collected for the bases like the wimps. Sometimes i feel that the maps are a bit empty and in the background you hear different kind of inexistent animals.

What do you think of all of this :D ?

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Post by DarkFalcoZ » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:37 pm

-The water collisions would be of a graphic effect that needs an animation, of which might not be able to make it in patch 1.5.

-Kabuto's throwing abilities definitely need some buffing. For one, its almost impossible to throw things remotely accurate the high vertically you throw.

Even if you're right under the target, the object tends to curve way out and miss completely. Also when you try throwing far, the trajectory just goes up and doesn't make sense.

-Another feature you can add to kabuto is allowing him to attack flying objects other than meccs or reapers. Most things like vimp and smarties can be attacked on the ground, but once they are flying, you can't hit them.

This could be used as better balance in kvk combat when dealing with thrown objects.Instead of taking a hit, you can adrenaline it.

-The next thing to look at is the thrown smartie. I'm not sure if its a bug, but you can't kill smarties while they are thrown at you.

-Sometimes this invulnerability keeps the smartie from dying when it hits the ground, so new ones won't respawn and they can get stuck in the ocean.

-Speaking of them being stuck, once in a while in defend the base, base build/etc. the smarties don't show up in the party house. However, they still register in the smarite count hud on your team.

-The offspring need some kind of buffs. Unless you're just goofing around, they are useless in multiplayer.

I suggest enabling them to attack gyros and heal by eating vimp just like in singleplayer. If they need to be balanced out, you could decrease their jump height.

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