Giants: Citizen Kabuto 1.5 (no, really)

Posts relating to the currently in development and sure to be released 1.5 patch.

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Giants_Gamer32
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Post by Giants_Gamer32 »

DarkFalcoZ wrote:-The water collisions would be of a graphic effect that needs an animation, of which might not be able to make it in patch 1.5.

-Kabuto's throwing abilities definitely need some buffing. For one, its almost impossible to throw things remotely accurate the high vertically you throw.

Even if you're right under the target, the object tends to curve way out and miss completely. Also when you try throwing far, the trajectory just goes up and doesn't make sense.

-Another feature you can add to kabuto is allowing him to attack flying objects other than meccs or reapers. Most things like vimp and smarties can be attacked on the ground, but once they are flying, you can't hit them.

This could be used as better balance in kvk combat when dealing with thrown objects.Instead of taking a hit, you can adrenaline it.

-The next thing to look at is the thrown smartie. I'm not sure if its a bug, but you can't kill smarties while they are thrown at you.

-Sometimes this invulnerability keeps the smartie from dying when it hits the ground, so new ones won't respawn and they can get stuck in the ocean.

-Speaking of them being stuck, once in a while in defend the base, base build/etc. the smarties don't show up in the party house. However, they still register in the smarite count hud on your team.

-The offspring need some kind of buffs. Unless you're just goofing around, they are useless in multiplayer.

I suggest enabling them to attack gyros and heal by eating vimp just like in singleplayer. If they need to be balanced out, you could decrease their jump height.
-The offsprings cannot regenerate their health, even eating a lot of vimps.

-Why not graphical improvements ? I think all would like it.
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Exploderman
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Post by Exploderman »

- Dedicated server mode should be able to go anywhere it wants (literally straight up in the sky) and switch to different points of view of each player in game. Original dedicated mode only floated around on the ground.

- Fix bug when dedicated mode crashes when switching from the blank solid color screen to in-game flying around between maps.
Giants_Gamer32
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Post by Giants_Gamer32 »

-What about the camera views and his options of the player that used the debug menu (those were good times before it was deleted. You were able to do lots of things that weren't cheats like graphical changes) ? it was cool to see a cam of the foots of kabuto, or freecam with your character. You only had to press the button to change the view to access that views.

-About what i said about scale down smarties it is just this: http://www.giantswd.org/gamescreens/joyzee.jpg

-Exploderman said something about improving the graphics of the models. Kabuto can be as this: http://www.giantswd.org/gamescreens/detailedkabby.jpg it looks very cool and more realistic.

-If this patch is released. It will support giants hook and graphical revision mod ? Or they will have to make another versions of these mods ?
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RichardMH
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Post by RichardMH »

Alot of players have said some interesting ideas but we can't really ask for the most impressive effects, new items or objects and such since that would really be like creating a new game and we should pay for it..

Making something more of the repair tool is really interesting but if we have like a group healer, shouldn't the player that carries one of those be either harder to kill or impossible to kill since otherwise the opposite team will take out the healer first.. unless the healer would be getting full health at an instance when using the repair tool..

Also, group healer with a player using shield.. ehm? Block a player from getting the shield if a player on the same team has chosen a repair pack..?

Doing something more of the comcenter is something we should look into, like other players have said about multiple player controll of turrets..

Multiplayer missions, or single player missions for that matter, is something that I'm totally behind and something I've wanted to put my teeth into since 5+ years.
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Post by Tasiin »

Suggestions are being considered, but please keep in mind that it's unlikely that any completely new items will be added to the game. The focus for this patch is mainly on correcting multiplayer balance issues and every known bug that can be fixed for the moment.

One other recurring theme in the suggestions seems to be adding some sort of cooperative mode or allowing AI to work correctly in multiplayer. The effort required to make reapermen and other creatures "multiplayer-aware" would be considerable, but it's not completely off the table. It might end up getting pushed back to a later patch though (no, 1.5 is not necessarily going to be the last update for the game).

With that out of the way, let me try and respond to a few suggestions in more detail. If I don't respond to your suggestions they aren't being ignored, but there have been so many of them that I can't really cover them all right now.

Accusnoetn:

Good suggestions. Many of them have been implemented already, but a few that weren't have been added. An in-game server browser is definitely not going to happen. I have some questions about a few of the things you listed:
Accusnoetn wrote: • Fix the bug that causes players to become stuck in "baseview".
• Fix the bug where Smarties stop working in Basebuild games.
Do you know how to reproduce either of these bugs? I've run in to them as well, but they seemed to be a random occurrence...

Loop Goose:

I don't know how Steam supports games exactly, so you'd have to say a bit more about that.

I don't think anyone's compiled a list of the engine limitations, but it's likely that many of them could now be lifted or increased. If you want anything specific changed, now's the time to suggest it.

DarkFalcoZ:

The reaper mine/flare delay has been fixed. What bug are you referring to that allows gyros to remain in the water indefinitely? Do you mean unmanned ones?

Exploderman:

Updating or improving the character models is not going to happen. A "Very High" model detail setting has already been implemented, but I think you've misunderstood how that option works: higher model detail settings simply increase the distance from the camera at which object models stay detailed. The "Very High" setting currently doubles the distance over "High".

I'm not aware of any problems with 64-bit Windows or Vista. Can you be more specific?

More in-game settings for the "max smarties" option will be added (ranging from zero to more than ten).

There's already a "First Base Destroyed" and "First Base Complete" option for base build/defend games.

The dedicated server bug will be looked into.
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Post by Tasiin »

Latest progress update from the past two days (these items have also been edited into the first post):

Vehicle changes:
• Gyrocopters and reaperskis now deal a small amount of splash damage to nearby enemies when destroyed.
• Fixed a bug that made it unusually difficult to hit small objects with the gyrocopter machine gun.
• Meccs can now steal gyrocopters belonging to the enemy team.
• When joining a game, gyrocopters that already existed in the world can now be damaged normally by weapons.
• Reaperskis now have an explosion effect.

Balance changes:
• Increased the firing speed and ammunition of the gyrocopter machine gun, reduced damage per shot.
• Offspring respond more intelligently to being attacked.
• Offspring now heal from eating creatures in multiplayer games.
• Reaper mines and flares now have a delay.
• Reapers spawn with full turbo energy.

General improvements:
• Fixed a crash in three way games for joining players when receiving the snapshot.
• Fixed various other problems with the snapshot for joining players.
• Fixed a bug that prevented joining players from being hurt by missile splash damage in some cases.
• Fixed a bug that caused swinging swords into steep terrain to push Reapers backwards across long distances.
• Holding down the lay egg button as Kabuto no longer causes egg laying sounds to play repeatedly.
• Recalling Kabuto offspring will no longer impact game performance quite as much.
• Added a "Very High" model detail setting.
• Fixed some sounds that could get stuck in a loop.
• Fixed more exploitable bugs in multiplayer games.
• Fixed some minor issues when restarting single player missions.
• Minimizing the game in windowed mode will no longer cause odd behavior.
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Post by Glude »

Hey guys.

I just saw that :
• Reaper mines and flares now have a delay.
• Fixed a bug that caused swinging swords into steep terrain to push Reapers backwards across long distances.
I'm sorry to say that before having made any suggestion, but to me there was no need to "fix" that. It's part of the gameplay...
And you gonna fix rocket jumping too? :P

I'll spend some time to read the whole thread soon =)
And i think i can reproduce the bug where the smarties stop working, I just need to install Giants. If I recall good, it has something to do with the base walls.
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Post by Giants_Gamer32 »

Tasiin wrote:Latest progress update from the past two days (these items have also been edited into the first post):

Vehicle changes:
• Gyrocopters and reaperskis now deal a small amount of splash damage to nearby enemies when destroyed.
• Fixed a bug that made it unusually difficult to hit small objects with the gyrocopter machine gun.
• Meccs can now steal gyrocopters belonging to the enemy team.
• When joining a game, gyrocopters that already existed in the world can now be damaged normally by weapons.
• Reaperskis now have an explosion effect.

Balance changes:
• Increased the firing speed and ammunition of the gyrocopter machine gun, reduced damage per shot.
• Offspring respond more intelligently to being attacked.
• Offspring now heal from eating creatures in multiplayer games.
• Reaper mines and flares now have a delay.
• Reapers spawn with full turbo energy.

General improvements:
• Fixed a crash in three way games for joining players when receiving the snapshot.
• Fixed various other problems with the snapshot for joining players.
• Fixed a bug that prevented joining players from being hurt by missile splash damage in some cases.
• Fixed a bug that caused swinging swords into steep terrain to push Reapers backwards across long distances.
• Holding down the lay egg button as Kabuto no longer causes egg laying sounds to play repeatedly.
• Recalling Kabuto offspring will no longer impact game performance quite as much.
• Added a "Very High" model detail setting.
• Fixed some sounds that could get stuck in a loop.
• Fixed more exploitable bugs in multiplayer games.
• Fixed some minor issues when restarting single player missions.
• Minimizing the game in windowed mode will no longer cause odd behavior.
The "very High" model detail setting will work in SP ?
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Exploderman
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Post by Exploderman »

Tasiin wrote:I'm not aware of any problems with 64-bit Windows or Vista. Can you be more specific?
I meant if there were any compatible issues with the 64-bit version or with Vista in general, players with updated computers should be able to install and play without a worry.

And for the charactor models being updated: an updated mecc model would be like, the mecc's face wouldn't be just a white baby face texture, but an actual head. And maybe a more detailed body/suite for the meccs (I'm just throwin' ideas out there).

Speaking of heads, there should be headshots like 1-hit kill with a sniper shot to the head, or more damage done from all weapons (pistol, rocket, mini-turret etc.)
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Post by DarkFalcoZ »

That's a lot of work in two days; nice job. A limitation you can look into is the kabuto splash animation when he does an adrenaline.

-It produces a lot of load and reduces the fps at least 25 - 30% for me. Is there any way to make the algorithm simpler or balance the load between the cpu and gpu?

-If you manage to work that out, then enable the splash animation to display to other players, since it does splash damage.

-Another bug that occurs with the offspring is they sometimes get stuck while in the ground, but can still move around and can't be damaged.

-I do agree with Accusnoetn that all the backpack items do not have to be super powerful and surpass the shield, due to its learning curve. However, if you put in a couple extra nitros in the jetpack, it might give the jetpack a learning curve similar to the shield.

The reaper's flare delay should be around the same as the meccs. Also, check to make sure enemy teams can't activate your gyropad since they can go into gyros.

Yes, I was referring to unmanned gyros. I can't remember if giantshook already fixed that so I just mentioned it.
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Zopharks
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Post by Zopharks »

Glude wrote:but to me there was no need to "fix" that. It's part of the gameplay...
And you gonna fix rocket jumping too? :P


Well, obviously not everyone is going to be pleased with every change...

As for reaper mines specifically, the goal is to reduce their focus on relatively easy instant kills (throwing the entirety of your mine inventory at someone's face is an instant killer, after all), and make them a bit more skill oriented... they'll still overpower Meccs to a certain extent on a 1v1 basis (as is intended by PM), but we'd like for them to actually have to work for their kills a bit more. The end goal is to have them at such a level that they can be added comfortably to GWD's rotations.
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Post by DarkFalcoZ »

-Fix the bug where the light column used to start the ring of fire remains active even after spell activation time has lapsed. Also, make fire spells do a little more damage to kabuto.

-The fire spells are fine against meccs. Maybe the bleed out can be decreased so it only takes out 3/4 health out of them.

But whenever you use ring of fire on kabuto, you usually die shortly after and the bleed out is like a total of 1/20 of his health.
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Post by Glude »

@ Z0PharX : I understand well what you are trying to do, I'm just pointing out that balancing the game shouldn't be made at the cost of the fun... Typically, the "sword bug" is part of the fun of this game, and it's not an instant killer.

Just to be sure, when you added the delay for the mines, have you also added a delay for casting spells while jumping?
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Post by Zopharks »

Glude wrote:@ Z0PharX : I understand well what you are trying to do, I'm just pointing out that balancing the game shouldn't be made at the cost of the fun... Typically, the "sword bug" is part of the fun of this game, and it's not an instant killer.

Just to be sure, when you added the delay for the mines, have you also added a delay for casting spells while jumping?
Ah, I thought you were describing the mine fix in your last post, since I honestly couldn't remember having ever found much practical use for the sword glitch.

As for the other bit, I'm afraid I'm unsure myself - my involvement in this entire thing is absolutely minimal at best.
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Post by Carlern-tk »

More suggestions:

General:
* Increase the health of the deployable turrets, etc. from the Party House.
* Survival mode, (team) tag.

Mecch:
* Able to carry more flares (to balance out the homing/power bow from the reapers).

Reaper:
* "Teleport"-spell teleports a greater distance.

Kabuto:
* Increase the speed of objects thrown.
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